I just posted about Saigon Restaurant on Bangalore Metroblog. You can read the review there, but I wanted to add a few details here, one invidious comparison, and a description of my trip to the kitchen.First the comparison. Normally I wouldn't go out of my way to compare restaurants in Bangalore and San Francisco because, well, in most cases there is no comparison. With the obvious exception of all the many and varied forms of indian cuisines (especially south indian - karnatakan, keralan, chettinad, andhra, etc.) with very few exceptions (Shiok, Grasshopper, and recently Nanking) the restaurants we've been to in Bangalore don't really compare to similar style restaurants in San Francisco.
Now I know this isn't really fair. San Francisco is known as one of the restaurant capitals of the world, being compared in the same breath with New York City, London, and Paris. But locals like to tout Bangalore as one of India's "foodie" cities and so we had (and have) high expectations for the dining scene here.
That said, Saigon has provided a bright spot in that landscape. The Thai is high quality, as authentic as I can tell having not actually been to Thailand. I'm not really an expert just opinionated and experienced. In any case, this is a restaurant I'd go to in San Francisco. Sure there were a couple of misses - the soup (thom kha) had broken, and the pork was overcooked. But the dishes were interesting, the spicing and preparation was to high standards, and the presentation was well done.I'm sure some of it has to do with the fact that there is a visiting chef from Bangkok. We'll see if they can keep the standards up after she leaves, but in the mean time I'm happy.
So, being the nosy guy I am, when the chef came to chat, I asked if I could see the kitchen. In no time I was whisked down the back stair (the restaurant is on 3, the kitchen is on 2) into a spacious, immaculately clean, nicely appointed restaurant kitchen. Looked like one cold station, one hot (wok, griddle, frier), and someone plating. I've posted pix on flickr but I was surprised by the size of the mise!Anyway, all in all it was an enjoyable experience to warm the cockles of my foodie heart. It gives me hope that we'll find more little treasures like this to comfort me while I try to learn the ins and outs of indian food - I won't feel quite so much like a stranger in a strange land.
10 comments:
And what did you make of Nanking?
Thanks for the Saigon recommendation.
I've gone back thrice in the last week for their Thai special. And I've never been disappointed.
Yay! I'm glad you liked it. As for Nanking, I just posted a trip report/review on Bangalore
Metroblog
Bottom line - we loved it.
Half the battle is won if you have good ingredients. You know the place is serious about food when you see the Chef at the market in Shivajinagar, bright and early in the morning, EVERYDAY! (Tip o' the hat to you, Sunny...) SInce my gripe is with the meats, I'll start off with the entrees.
Main Courses
Pa neung mamow
The sea-bass was defrosted from a frozen state and looking the worst for it, (in spite of us asking for the freshest fish available). On top of that, it was served without the skin... sacrilege! What were they thinking? I hope they didn't steam it AFTER the fillet-ing!
Moo
The pork red curry was interesting, but let down by the meat, which looked like it had been over-processed. Wake up, Saigon, and smell the coffee: this is India, where all the food is still as natural as can be, and free range is actually cheaper and widely available. Adn what's with every dish tasting like it's been infused with rose water or some other floral essence?
Normai farang phad hea norm
The stir fried asparagus with straw mushrooms was delicious: I attribute this to all the ingredients being all imported. Madam Chef DOES know her own ingredients well. A light and delicate touch with the wok resulted in a well executed dish, simple but masterful.
Starters
Thung thong
The vegetable money bag tasted like it had been laced with a good helping of pork-fat, that nice and rich, artery-clogging stuff, (good as an taste enhancer, but in a veggie starter)? And lay off the dark brown color willl ya: just run it once thouugh the hot oil, for goodness sake.
Gai pan oiy
The minced chicken wrapped around sugar cane was insipid: totally geared toward western taste-buds, if you aske me. Give us the original Thai version.
Gai young som tam
The grilled chicken was not cooked through: maybe Madam Chef doesn't understand the local meats... I suggest a partnership with an experienced local, before sending out the Thai versions of her signature dishes. IOW, our meats need more time and a little bit of care in the prep will do wonders. Read my lips: deep cuts in the fillets to even out the cooking heat. She needs to vet the dishes that the sous chefs churn out. The mark of a good restaurant is what goes past the Exec Chef AND what does not.
I should have known that this would happen, given what was written about Nanking: Har! Har! Har! Charles, what you got was basically the Chef's dinner. None of the dishes you got could have come out of the kitchen in less than two hours. Good stuff, but HOME food: they must have thought you were one of them: (ahem... us). The pork mai po is nothing but slow cooked pork in salted vegetables. This is the Chinese version of the Korean kimchi veg (which is also available in Chinese cuisine), but pushed through another stage: wind drying, to give a dry, salted, sweet AND acidic product.
The soup was a dried snail and mushroom broth: good stuff. The Chef eats well... all the portends of great meals from a good kitchen in the future. You were right anout the crab: steaming with ginger and garlic would have been the way to go. Our Indian meats are VERY flavourful: none of that farm-raised, tank-cultured stuff that you have in the West, for us. Which brings me to ask: why would I believe your reviews of the food you've tasted? Food reviews from a layman is so subjective: one man's meat is REALLY another man's poison, in this instance. Would you get hired by a rag as it's in-house food critic?
As you know, our Indian tea tasters are trained and vetted befiore they get a shot at the job. I'm sure that goes for your Napa Valley wine tasters. Bottom line, you'd better get in a good review before you expect attention from certain quarters here in town. Believe me, being accepted as a serious foodie has its rewards. You get entry into the world of good food, AND great pointers from those in the know. And good nosh doesn't have to be expensive. So if you want to be taken seriously, do a review of some food you know well. BTW, forget some of the bad habits of the ugly American: throwing money about in some of the local versions of Spagos and Nobu's is one of them. We can do without THAT type of hype and build up. I can't believe the kind of stuff they serve at some of the American restaurants and the prices they charge! Can't they tell by the taste of the food that they aren't getting their money's worth?
Hope I haven't knocked at you too hard, but if you really like good food, you've come to the right place. Just prove that you can appreciate it when you get invited to partake! You can get stuff here that's just not available anywhere else in the world. There, that should egg you on to excel! Waiting expectantly for your next write up....
Anton
Anton please don't worry, I appreciate directness and prefer frank talk.
I'm a person who loves good food and has made it my mission to try and find good food wherever I go. That means everything from street food in Mexico, hawker food in Singapore, idli/vada/dosa here, as well as places like El Bulli, Taillevent, and The French Laundry. (Never been to Spago but I like Nobu - more on that later.)
I write because I love to write, and I love to share my experiences with people. I'm not really trying to impress anyone though it's always nice when someone says they like what I've written or tries some place I've liked and likes it too. This blog is my place to write about my experiences living in Bangalore, and as food is a big part of my life, food writing (and food photography) will be a big part of this blog.
I would *love* to start a dialog about food, and things I may have missed in visiting a place or places I've missed. I think a healthy disagreement is a good thing - as long as it stays civil.
I would love to learn more about Thai, Vietnamese, southern chinese, or south indian food. I'm an enthusiastic and appreciative audience but as I said in my review I'm no expert on Thai. I've eaten at some very nice Thai places, and I've had some fascinating discussions with Thai chefs about the traditions and theory of Thai cooking, but I'm by no means an expert.
Similarly I've got some grounding in the theory (and practice!) of chinese cuisine, especially Sichuan, and I've been to some very fine chinese restaurants, but just as one example my exposure to the more esoteric side of chinese banquet food has been limited. I've had maybe three or four full on banquet experiences, and only once had someone there to explain the nuances of the dishes we were being served. So I still have a LOT to learn about chinese.
There are a few cuisines where I'll happily discuss the minutiae and esoteric details with anyone, and there are areas where I quite confident in the discrimination of my palate and I bring that to my experience with other cuisines.
So thanks for the detailed critique of the food you had at Saigon! I'm happy to have your contribution and I look forward to a lively and collegial discussion of food!
(and lest you think I only write good things about restaurants, please see my upcoming write up of T'Chi.)
"Half the battle is won if you have good ingredients."
Definitely, though I would say more than half.
"The pork ... was ... let down by the meat, which looked like it had been over-processed. ... [T]his is India, where all the food is still as natural as can be, and free range is actually cheaper and widely available."
"Free range" is probably healthier both for you and the animal, but it certainly isn't any guarantee that it'll be tastier. Most "free range" meats require very careful handling to be palatable. The low fat content and higher muscle density mean that it's very easy for free range meat to be tough and dry. My experience is that free range meats do best with a long slow cooking in moist heat, either a stew or a braise, to let the connective tissue soften. Cooking free range meat quickly with dry heat is very tricky, and even places that specialize in it (like Acme Chop House) have a hard time with consistency.
Where does one get "free range" pork in Bangalore that isn't garbage fed? I'm serious - I LOVE good pork and I would love to find a purveyor of good high-quality pork!
"The grilled chicken was not cooked through: maybe Madam Chef doesn't understand the local meats... I suggest a partnership with an experienced local, before sending out the Thai versions of her signature dishes."
Are you sure she didn't? I believe, from my discussion with her (and with her local chef) that is exactly what she did do. That said, there's no excuse for uncooked meat.
"The mark of a good restaurant is what goes past the Exec Chef AND what does not."
Definitely.
"Charles, what you got [at Nanking] was basically the Chef's dinner."
Excellent! I love it when that happens. :)
"None of the dishes you got could have come out of the kitchen in less than two hours."
Seven I think, in the case of the soup, and yes the pork had obviously been simmered a long time, yum.
"Good stuff, but HOME food: they must have thought you were one of them: (ahem... us)."
They said as much, and I appreciated it. It is the same way in other countries, if I talk to the chef about food, show them I'm interested in how *they* eat then I get fantastic meals. If I settle for what they use to impress the locals it's generally mediocre.
"The pork mai po is nothing but slow cooked pork in salted vegetables. This is the Chinese version of the Korean kimchi veg (which is also available in Chinese cuisine), but pushed through another stage: wind drying, to give a dry, salted, sweet AND acidic product."
It was great. BTW I used to make my own kimchi, I stopped because I was lazy but it's really the best way to get good kimchi and it's really easy. They said they'd tried to make their own local dried salted veggies but they hadn't come out right so they bring it in from HK.
"The soup was a dried snail and mushroom broth: good stuff. The Chef eats well..."
He seemed well fed. Never trust a skinny chef. :)
"none of that farm-raised, tank-cultured stuff that you have in the West, for us."
No need for that. I'm no fan of factory farming, but I have yet to find sources for these meats you're talking about. (Except for the Russell Market fish market. Excellent fish there, very fresh. I was pleasantly surprised.) The mutton at Russell Market was nothing special, and the chickens weren't either. Where should I go for good meats?
"So if you want to be taken seriously, do a review of some food you know well."
Like I said, I'm not worried about "being taken seriously" my writing will have to speak for itself. The foods I know best are, for the most part, just not available in Bangalore. I'm talking about Japanese (neither Harima nor Dahlia are even close), French (bistro, nouvelle, or haute), Italian, Mexican, Spanish, or California Cuisine [except Grasshopper].
But I didn't come to bangalore expecting to do a comparative analysis of the frites in duck fat at various french bistros. Frankly I want to learn about the history, traditions, theory, and practice of indian cuisines. I know there's not enough time, but there also doesn't seem to be a culture of critical food analysis either. Have I just missed it?
"I can't believe the kind of stuff they serve at some of the American restaurants and the prices they charge! Can't they tell by the taste of the food that they aren't getting their money's worth?"
In the spirit of giving back and not just taking, if you'd like some time to talk about what it is that people find worth the prices they pay in top end places I'd be happy to discuss it with you. I do come from that kind of food culture now, but I can still remember when I was shocked at the notion of paying (what was for me) over a month's rent for a single meal.
"Hope I haven't knocked at you too hard, but if you really like good food,"
Have you read any of the rest of this blog, or looked at any or my photos? I think maybe not. :)
you've come to the right place.
We will see. What I'm really anticipating is learning more about Indian cuisine(s). Though I'm thinking I might need to narrow my focus a bit. If so, I think I will start with Andhra.
-- Charles
You could try:
1. Shezan on Cunningham Road for beef. It's expensive but probably the best tenderloin in town.
2. Bangalore Ham Shop for pork but ask for the Korean cut. It's the tender stuff.
3. For chicken, Real Good isn't bad. It's not frozen, only chilled, and is always fresh.
@ Anton/Charles
If they've removed the skin, one of two thoughts come to mind. One, that the fish isn't that fresh and because of the high fat content the skin goes "off" first or two, Indian's hate skin/bones on their meat. To wit, all the boneless and skinless chicken/pork/fish.
As for the pork, you do get some lot-fed pork but mainly at Metro and select ham shops. Most of the other pork is from foraging 'black' pigs.
As for the chicken, most restaurants source from one of three vertically integrated processors and the meat is not generally thought to be tough. It's actually far more tender than what's available outside the country because Indians have a marked preference for smaller birds.
As for never trusting a skinny chef:
http://www.sparkysindia.com/
It's there tag line!
Truthfully, if you can wrangle a card, you'll find the best meats and fish there.
Andhra cuisine is probably one of the more insulated cuisines. Except for th Hyderabad area which has the Islamic influence.
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Good call on the sourcing of beef and pork. Chicken huntin' is a bit of black art though: a good place to start is the Beef Section of Russell Market! You amble over to the speckled or brown birds cooped up in their cages and ask the owner of the shop, nicely, for a selection of his ware.
Here's the secret (passed down by generations of chickenhunters...): press the pectral bone of the biddy. There should be a soft "give".
Now flip the li'l darlin over till your nose is pointing over her business end, and blow gently! (I'm not taking the mickey out of you, if you're still reading).
You should see a nice rosy, slightly moist sphinctre muscle, and surrounding it, what look like oily feather buds. Bingo, you've got your sacrifical victim for the dinner pot!
This chicken is going to be so tender, you'll be able to make a nice steamed version of the beggar chicken found in HK without too much bother: twenty minutes tops!
Or ask Punjab Chicken (opp the Fish Stalls) to get you a young and tender "Nah Tee" and make a delicious curry in short order. These birds really don't need the slow treatment: tender like broilers, but not insipid: in fact quite "gamey".
Mutton found in Russell Market is sheep: most restaurants buy this and give it a good boiling over, before turning it into the staple rogan josh found on the buffet table. This accounts for the absence of the strong odour and flavour normally associated with this type mutton. Goat is what you want when you cook it for yourself. This is found in the ubiquitious "Mutton" shops found in every residential area, and as the taste can vary from shop to shop, it's a good idea to shop around, identify the product that suits your taste and patronise that one seller, who will have a secret source from where all his supplies come. In fact this is a good idea with all produce that needs to be raised or grown, including veggies, fruit and poultry.
Do take a little time and trouble in this regard: it's well worth the extra effort.
@ Charles
BTW, sorry about the Saigon rant: I did so want to find a Thai restaurant I could like...
And "civil" is good: I might have picked up a bit of "aggessive" in some of the cut and thrust needed to survive in some fora (I'm using my photography monicker here: too lazy to re-invent!), so scusi!
Eating Thai food in Bangkok was pretty hit and miss: we either ended up eating street food dished out by a sullen hawker, or got ripped off by the tourist trap dives we were taken to by the "official" guide. Where was the colourful, fresh food we kept seeing on all the travel channels? We ended up by living off the snacks found in the Food Halls that dotted the spanking new malls that seemed to have mushroomed up overnight in all parts of the city. And the salad bars were good value, and by virtue of being good for you, was penance for the times we pigged out!
It makes great sense to eat local, as it has everything going for it, both ingredient-wise and expertise wise. In India, because of logistical hiccups, this means travel to as near as possible to the food sources, and no gastronomes tour is complete without making the mandatory circuit: Hyderabad, Amritsar, Lucknow and Calcutta.
But Bangalore is great for certain cuisine though, and although I'm not a great hand in the kitchen for this type cooking, I do know what I like in idli/dosa. Tastes may differ, but the first thing that makes me happy is if the idli/dosa dough is "fresh", though some prefer it to ferment till acidic. For me the perfect "dosa" is: crisp on one side, fluffy and creamy like a "neer" dosa on the other side, and with an interesting filling. I once had a dosa made this way and served with a filling of fresh mango cubes: HEAVEN! Certainly give a crepe a good run for its money! :p! *drool*!
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